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  3. #1102
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    What goes around comes around. I wonder if Trump was testing out the same Russian vaccine that Putin gave his daughter?
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  4. #1103
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  5. #1104
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    According to my local CBS radio news station today, Trump's Tweet last night that he tested positive for the Covid-19 virus received more "likes" than any other Tweet he had ever made.

    Right now he is planning to be taken to the hospital and the news media is staring at his helicopter to see if he will walk to it or be carried to it on a stretcher. You can watch what happened on tonight's TV news. He has just left on Marine 1 heading to Walter Reed and apparently made it to the copter under his own power. He will be holding court and Tweeting from the Hospital until he gets better.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  6. #1105
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  7. #1106
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    Was he still taking the anti-malaria drugs?
    As of Mon, 1st Feb 2016- ;
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  8. #1107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    According to my local CBS radio news station today, Trump's Tweet last night that he tested positive for the Covid-19 virus received more "likes" than any other Tweet he had ever made.

    Right now he is planning to be taken to the hospital and the news media is staring at his helicopter to see if he will walk to it or be carried to it on a stretcher. You can watch what happened on tonight's TV news. He has just left on Marine 1 heading to Walter Reed and apparently made it to the copter under his own power. He will be holding court and Tweeting from the Hospital until he gets better.
    Evan in his biological bubble he contracts covid,,. The double standard in the quality of healthcare has never been more obvious,,. Now that he has shared the virus with 7 million I'm sure when he recovers he will find away of sharing this wonderful healthcare with his fellow countryman, I see at very least he has finally found the business end of a face mask,,!!
    Last edited by Lag; 10-03-20 at 12:49 PM.

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    To show him the same compassion he shows others, I mailed him a get well card that said "Stay Positive"
    2013 F800GT Graphite Metallic-Gone to a new home
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  14. #1111
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  15. #1112
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    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  16. #1113
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  17. #1114
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    Of course tump will survive the Corona virus. It requires a heart and brain to function
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  18. #1115
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    Top whites only house aide, Stephen Miller, tests positive. W.O.W.!!!!! The virus jumped from bat to human and then back to bat
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  20. #1116
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    California continues to drive me crazy. The Governor has established rules for counties that allow them to move from various levels of pandemic restrictions depending upon the number of people tested and are found infected, number of people with Covid-19 in hospitals, etc. As an example: most indoor business activities, such as restaurants, gyms, hair salons and religious activities, are not permitted for counties in one phase, but are permitted in areas with a lesser phase of virus infection and transmission, with certain improvements in reported data.

    Just as many counties in the San Francisco Bay Are were about ready to move to a lesser set of restrictions, the Governor added a new one this week that upset their plans. The requirement had been that virus infection and transmission reductions were measured as an average for the entire county. But he just changed the rules to require the published standards to also specifically apply to any economically disadvantaged and/or racially diverse neighborhoods within each county, which typically are more impacted by the pandemic than most other areas of the counties where the residents have smaller families and can work from home. Those new requirements are now preventing all of the counties in the Greater Bay Area, other than the city of San Francisco (which has huge and expensive social programs), from relaxing their business restrictions as most of the people in their local "disadvantaged" neighborhoods either will not or can not follow virus prevention guidelines.

    Now the counties are wondering how they can make people comply with social distancing and proper hygiene requirements inside their homes when many of these people have to live in crowded conditions due to their economic and other situations. In other words, the state is trying to force local governments to impose its social engineering concepts onto their residents that either won't or can't comply with the virus rules without the state government needing to take the heat for doing it. Good luck with that. In the meantime, businesses are rapidly going broke and their customers are continuing to suffer by not being able to take advantage of their services.

    It is like playing a board game where the rules change every time someone makes a move.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  21. #1117
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    The latest odd virus restriction in San Francisco is that they are permitting movie theaters to open up but they are not allowing their concession stands to operate. Theater operators say that they obtain 60% of their income from the selling of snacks and drinks. As usual, no justification is being provided for this new regulation.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

  22. #1118
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  24. #1120
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    Fauci: ‘Bizarre’ White House Behavior Only Hurts the President
    The nation’s top public-health expert tells The Atlantic that he isn’t going anywhere, despite the Trump administration’s newest attempts to undercut him.

    PETER NICHOLASED YONG
    JULY 15, 2020

    Anthony Fauci isn’t about to quit, despite the White House’s clumsy attempts to stain his public image. More so now than at any other point in their uneasy partnership, it seems that if President Donald Trump wants to be rid of Fauci, he’ll need to fire him. In recent days especially, the White House has stepped up efforts to discredit Fauci, a move he describes as “bizarre.”

    “Ultimately, it hurts the president to do that,” Fauci told The Atlantic in a series of interviews this week. “When the staff lets out something like that and the entire scientific and press community push back on it, it ultimately hurts the president.”

    He described the White House attacks against him as “nonsense” and “completely wrong.” He also seemed dismayed that they are coming at a time when COVID-19 is surging across the country, deaths are once again rising, and Americans remain deeply confused about how to keep themselves and their loved ones safe.

    Targeting Fauci seems like a tragic misuse of White House time and energy if officials’ aim is to defeat the coronavirus. But Trump appears more concerned with discrediting Fauci. Over the weekend, the White House sent multiple news outlets a document that smacked of opposition research. It carried a list of statements Fauci had made about COVID-19, purporting to show that he had contradicted himself about the outbreak and that he “has been wrong on things.” In one example from an NBC interview in February, the White House omitted Fauci’s full quote, giving the impression that he’d misjudged the outbreak’s danger. Peter Navarro, Trump’s top trade adviser, wrote an op-ed for USA Today yesterday claiming that Fauci has been “wrong about everything I have interacted with him on.” (A Trump communications aide tried to distance the White House from the op-ed this morning.)

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...c-oppo/614224/

  25. #1121
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  27. #1122
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    Seems the west has much to learn

    Meanwhile in Taiwan, folks get 5 masks in the mail every week, national health care that costs like $5 to see a doc, UBI for those under quarantine, contact tracing, food delivery services, 14 day quarantine for new visitors, so many masks they're donating millions to stupider countries, offered zoom conferences on best practices for other countries --- 11 deaths total since Feb 2020. 3.8% unemployment and businesses open.

    2nd Wave in New Zealand On Wednesday OCT 7, New Zealand moved to lift the last of its restrictions in Auckland after 10 days with no new cases linked to a cluster that first surfaced in August. The government will now allow unrestricted gatherings, and trips on public transit without social distancing or masks, in the city of 1.6 million people.

    China is rapidly increasing the number of people receiving its experimental coronavirus vaccines, with a city offering one to the general public and a biotech company providing another free to students going abroad.

    The city of Jiaxing, south of Shanghai, is offering a vaccine under development by Sinovac, it said in an announcement Thursday. It said high-risk groups, including people who are "responsible for the basic operations of the city" will receive priority, but that residents who have emergency needs can also sign up.

    The vaccine is in the final stage of clinical testing, but has not yet been approved. The city government said it is being provided under an emergency authorization.

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    Dr. Anthony Fauci's career under six US presidents
    Since 1984, he has been the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

    Fauci has served under six US presidents, starting with Ronald Reagan, and in 2008 he was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

    As the nation's top infectious disease expert, Fauci has worked on the federal response to AIDS, Ebola, the Zika virus and anthrax scares, just to name a few.

    President Donald Trump claimed Dr. Anthony Fauci as a "disaster" who has been around for "500 years." Claims if he would have listened to Fauci there would be 7 or 800,000 deaths in the US,,.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/polit...rus/index.html

    Dr. Anthony Fauci's Profiles, Awards, and Honors just since 2016

    October 19, 2020
    Dr. Fauci Awarded National Academy of Medicine Presidential Citation for Exemplary Leadership
    October 14, 2020
    Dr. Fauci Honored with the 2020 Arthur Ashe Institute for Urban Health Award
    October 14, 2020
    Dr. Fauci Receives the 2020 Citizen of the Year Award of the Boy Scouts of America National Capital Area Council
    October 5, 2020
    Dr. Fauci Awarded the Samuel J. Heyman Service to America Medal (“Sammie Award”) as the 2020 Federal Employee of the Year
    October 5, 2020
    Dr. Fauci and Dr. Christine Grady Receive the 2020 Distinguished Child Advocate Award from the Children’s Law Center
    September 18, 2020
    Foundation for the NIH Honors Dr. Fauci with the 5th Charles A. Sanders, M.D., Partnership Award
    September 15, 2020
    Dr. Fauci to Receive the Esperanza (HOPE) Award of the Latino Commission on AIDS
    September 15, 2020
    Dr. Fauci to Receive the 2020 Gustav O. Lienhard Award for Advancement of Health Care
    August 18, 2020
    Dr. Fauci Receives 2020 Champion of Science Award from the Alliance for Aging Research
    August 16, 2020
    Joan Baez—Dear Dr. Fauci, I’ve painted your portrait to honor you and all you are doing for us and for the world.
    August 11, 2020
    Dr. Fauci receives the Aspen Institute’s Citizen Leadership Award
    July 27, 2020
    Dr. Fauci named as a 2020 Ripple of Hope Award laureate by Robert F. Kennedy Human Rights
    July 15, 2020
    Dr. Fauci ranked as the 41st most highly cited researcher of all time in 2020 analysis of Google Scholar citations
    May 11, 2020
    Association of Independent Research Institutes (AIRI) presents Dr. Fauci with 2020 Public Service Award
    March 8, 2020
    New York Times: Not His First Epidemic: Dr. Anthony Fauci Sticks to the Facts
    November 8, 2019
    Video: Photographer Howard Schatz interviews Dr. Fauci about his career in science and medicine
    October 2, 2019
    Dr. Fauci Honored for 35 Years of Leadership in HIV Policy and Research by AIDS United’s Public Policy Council (PPC)
    September 23, 2019
    NIH Director's blog: Presenting a Government Hall of Famer
    August 22, 2019
    Dr. Fauci selected as an inaugural inductee in Government Executive's Government Hall of Fame
    May 9, 2019
    Dr. Fauci Discusses his career during a visit to his high school alma mater, Regis High School
    March 23, 2019
    Lancet profile: Anthony Fauci: fighting HIV/AIDS from the beginning
    March 22, 2019
    Dr. Fauci named a 2019 Distinguished Fellow of the American Association of Immunologists
    January 10, 2019
    Video: American Academy of Achievement interview with Dr. Fauci
    December 7, 2018
    Academy of Achievement profile of Dr. Fauci
    September 24, 2018
    Video: Dr. Fauci Honored at 22nd Annual Cancer Leadership Awards Reception
    July 16, 2018
    Academy of Achievement podcast: Anthony Fauci: From Aristotle to AIDS
    May 15, 2018
    AIDS Researcher and Champion Anthony Fauci a 2018 Honorary Degree Recipient
    May 10, 2017
    Video of Dr. Fauci's Acceptance Speech at 2016 Canada Gairdner Awards Gala
    March 15, 2017
    Dr. Fauci honored with ​Research! America’s Legacy Award
    March 7, 2017
    Dr. Fauci honored with the Maryland Tech Council's Lifetime Achievement Award
    November 25, 2016
    Purpose Up podcast: Dr. Tony Fauci – Zika news, Tackling AIDS and Service to Others
    August 19, 2016
    Dr. Anthony Fauci: America’s Man on Infectious Diseases (Voice of America profile)
    July 19, 2016
    Dr. Fauci receives the 2016 International AIDS Society President’s Award
    May 31, 2016
    Health and Communications blog: Why is Dr. Anthony Fauci such an Effective Communicator?
    May 25, 2016
    Dr. Fauci awarded Villanova University's 2016 Mendel Medal
    March 23, 2016
    Dr. Fauci awarded the 2016 Canada Gairdner Global Health Award

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  31. #1124
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    2nd Wave in New Zealand On Wednesday OCT 7, New Zealand moved to lift the last of its restrictions in Auckland after 10 days with no new cases linked to a cluster that first surfaced in August. The government will now allow unrestricted gatherings, and trips on public transit without social distancing or masks, in the city of 1.6 million people.

    Great to be living life in Auckland almost as normal. Recording visit to premises via phone app is the only inconvenience. And that's voluntary, encouraged by Govt agency. My experience with total lock down back in March/April in business and trading since has not been a disaster. Sure I'm down, but not excessively. Effective strong action has proved to be a lower cost option than a lack of political leadership in controlling this epidemic. Good luck to the rest of the free world.
    08 F800ST 

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  33. #1125
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    New Zealand rocks

    Congratulations to all of the Kiwis and a special nod to Prime Minister Jacinda Adern.

  34. #1126
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    Stop the virus and intelligence spreading. Stop testing for it.
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  36. #1127
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    Looks like it didn't go away after all,,. Never mind the case count,. When your dead your dead,,. If you have trouble breathing the rest of your life,,, you have trouble breathing the rest of your life,,. In a couple of years this will all have passed however some will still be dead and some will still have trouble breathing,,.
    To quote an infamous person ,,,,,,,,,,,,"It is what it is",,!!
    Last edited by Lag; 11-30-20 at 09:04 PM.

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  38. #1128
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    Alameda County and 4 other counties in the Bay Area start a Covid lockdown this weekend. Mostly this is to help hospitals overwhelmed by the current Covid surge. I would suggest that all Covid deniers could help, if they wanted, by refusing medical assistance for all members of their extended families for all Covid related illnesses.

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    I see that Mr Trump says we are turning the corner with coronavirus and the case numbers. Like in the last few days there have only been about 200k cases per day and I read that that is now a record or something. I can see that Mr Trump would be happy with such numbers, considering that he has been working so hard to save American lives over the last 10 months or so.

    I wasn't too good at math. Can anyone tell me what the 'k' means after the 200?

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    Today we have virus jokes, because you have to find something funny about this year.
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  42. #1131
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    "PFAS chemical associated with severe Covid 19."

    https://www.theintercept.com

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    Years ago, I washed my hands with MEK. It worked great for getting paint, glue and other things off the hands. I suspect that might fall into the category of the PFAS chemicals in the article you linked stephen. So far though, I don't have cancer and I seem healthier than others my age.

    I came across this picture yesterday at the Qanon website. It does make you think.

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    I remember very clearly going into the military hospital and being diagnosed with the flu. For those that aren't aware, in the military, you have no choice. You have to get the annual flu vaccination. So I asked the doctor why I came down with the flu. His reply still makes me chuckle. He said the vaccination was for a different strain of the flu. He had just read about this strain of the flu last week and I was his first patient.

    I still get my flu shot each year, but I don't have any illusions about it being perfect.

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    Something to lift you up regarding the Coronavirus and the times we live in.

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    Elnathan - 2014 BMW F800GT
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  46. #1134
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    Fake news Daboo.

    Seasonal 'flu is caused by an influenza virus.
    Covid-19 is caused by a coronavirus.

    Even Donald Trump has learned that fact in the last year.

    They are different. Just like a Honda is not a BMW.

    Posting up ignorant false memes to back up your ideas is disingenuous and does not help.

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  48. #1135
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    Okay, my bad. But...have you seen a vaccine yet for the common cold? Have you seen a vaccine for the flu that has a 99+ percent effectiveness rating? If not...why believe the coronavirus vaccine will be any more effective?

    And if wearing masks and quarantining ourselves was so effective...why are we still doing it? The Democrat California and New York politicians believe it is bunk...their actions prove that. If quarantining didn't work back in March...or April...or June...why keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome?

    I'm wondering how long New Zealand and Australia can isolate themselves from the rest of the world? They can control their borders because of their location. But as soon as travel with the rest of the world opens up, so will the floodgates.

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  49. #1136
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    People entering Aus still has to go into 14 days quarantine upon entry and are the only cause of new cases within our borders. Although Victoria has had over 30 days without a new case of C19, we have only just been given a bit of relief from wearing masks. We still have to have a mask with us, to be worn where social distancing can't be maintained, eg. In supermarkets or other crowded places. Because of strict social distancing and mask LAWS, not only has C19 been placed into a controlled state, Aus has had the lowest cases of cold and flu for many years. This year is the first year in my life, that I can remember, that I have not had a cold or the flu. If people believe that social distancing and wearing masks don't work to assist to control this virus and don't do so, they are putting others at risk.
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  51. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    .........Have you seen a vaccine for the flu that has a 99+ percent effectiveness rating? If not...why believe the coronavirus vaccine will be any more effective?
    Because we have developed effective vaccines against Bubonic Plague, Small Pox, Whooping Cough, Measles, Rubella, Tetanus, Polio, Diphtheria and TB amongst others. No vaccine is 100% effective. To stop a pandemic you don't need a vaccine to be 100% effective you need enough people with immunity to create herd immunity (estimated to be around 60% for coronavirus). The flu jab is not 100% effective but seems to have done a pretty good job of stopping flu pandemics.
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    I sit kind of in the middle of things. I guess I've never been a black or white kind of person. In fact, as I look back, I used to frustrate those people who did look at things that way.

    I don't doubt at all that a lot of people have died. I do doubt how many were accurately attributed to COVID-19. It's like the joke I posted above where the husband died after telling his wife she was never skinny. I've read too many reports of people who died of something like a motorcycle accident at the scene...and because they tested positive for COVID, they were counted as a COVID death when they arrived at the hospital. So I'm looking beyond the hype to what I actually see and can verify.

    We have some amazing capabilities to track people's actions. For anyone who read the book 1984 growing up, it's come to life. Big Brother is watching. So I watched as the MSM in the USA said the Sturgis rally would be a "superspreader" event. And that fizzled. They tracked those who had gone with the number of cases two weeks later and came up with something like 120 cases. Not all of those required hospitalization, and not all of those died. So that tells me that the superspreader event and the hype that led up to it may not have been as big of a deal as it was played up by the MSM. But a lot of people bought the superspreader event, hook, line and sinker.

    The statistics say that for most people, you might feel sick, but you'll survive. For all the Trump haters, guess what...he came back from it invigorated. (Please don't get into Trump hating posts now. It has nothing to do with the discussion.) Here was a guy who was overweight. Who was old. Who was smack-dab in the middle of the vulnerable population...and much to some people's consternation...he didn't die. Neither did any of the other people who contracted the virus like Chris Christie. If anyone should have died, he should've. But he didn't. So my brain is questioning the info I get from the MSM.

    Then there's the Project Verititas expose on CNN where Zucker is telling his people to hype the COVID-19 for political purposes. Huh? Objectivity? Totally out the door. Just another reason why I sit in the gray area of things.

    So like Pooh Bear, I sit and thinks and thinks.

    Why do you see the Democratic leaders of California and New York telling the little guy they can't have a business? There's the case of the woman who owns a restaurant who is told she can't even serve customers outside, let alone inside. But!...there's a movie setup directly across the street that has the same set up as she has for hundreds of cast members. Did the virus get direction to only attack those on one side of the street, and not the other? She's watching her life be taken away from her. And there's no logic in what is allowed versus what isn't.

    It's like there's an agenda beyond the virus and the virus is just convenient to pursue that agenda.

    Why has no one asked why Gov Cuomo put old people with the coronavirus back into the nursing homes before they were well? Most of the deaths in New York were a result of that. His actions were criminal...but nothing will come of that.

    If the masks and lockdowns were so effective...why do we still have them? We were told they were to "flatten the curve"...back in March. Give it a couple more months, and we'll be a year into it. And I don't think the current rise in positive tests has much to do with people getting lax. If anything, in my part of the country, they are even more stringent on wearing a mask. And yet the numbers increase. "Flattening the curve" didn't say that less people would get the virus...only that the spike would be pushed out to lessen the impact.

    I belong to a seniors Life Group at church. You have to be over 62 to be part of it. So last Tuesday, two prayer requests were brought up. One was for a kid going to college who had a wrestling scholarship. Everything was going for him. But...he drunk himself into a coma. Why? Because of everything being cancelled. Another guy had a music ministry. He was a worship leader, composed and did a lot of performing. He's drowning himself in booze. One thing that has gone up in consumption since the lockdowns started, is drug and alcohol consumption. Yet we aren't concerned about that effect caused by the lockdowns.

    There's nothing simple about the response we take to the coronavirus as individuals, or as government entities. I would like to believe the gov't would use common sense and be concerned about the welfare of all men...but they have proven they don't. Rahm Emmanuel said to never let a crisis go to waste. The gov't in many cases hasn't. And the people seem like sheep ...which is not a compliment. Sheep are some of the dumbest animals around. I saw people hiking on trails with no one within a tenth of a mile ...wearing their masks. At 7000 feet. Who are they going to infect? This is dumb. If you get anything, you'll get hypoxia. But!...they were politically correct and probably feeling very self-righteous.

    I don't have the answers to how to fix this. But I do sit back and think. New Zealand and Australia have an advantage, it seems. They can restrict entry into their countries very effectively. (So much for those not wanting a wall for the USA. It's the same thing, only different.) It'll work...for awhile. Will they come up with an effective vaccine? Beats me. I can only hope so. But eventually, the entry restrictions have to be lifted. And then what?

    Chris
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  53. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by MGD109 View Post
    ...The flu jab is not 100% effective but seems to have done a pretty good job of stopping flu pandemics.
    Good luck with that. My personal experience tells me that a vaccine isn't the cure.

    How many versions of the coronavirus have they found in the past few months? Four? Six?

    I remember quite well one of the last times I caught the flu. The family was all in town and we were supposed to go up to the mountains to go snow shoeing. I couldn't get out of bed. My daughters described me as being a "larva". It wiped me out completely. But!...I had the flu shot.

    Assuming the COVID-19 vaccine proves to be no more effective in real life than the flu shot that has done "a pretty good job of stopping flu pandemics"...how will you continue your life with any kind of freedoms?

    We have rolled over and played dead on our right to assemble. Our right to worship. And oh yes, the left has already said they are coming after our guns. What's the virus have to do with the Second Amendment? Ah...never let a crisis go to waste. We didn't even put up a fuss. We just rolled over and played dead.

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  54. #1140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    Good luck with that. My personal experience tells me that a vaccine isn't the cure.
    I'm hoping you are simply pretending not to understand to elicit a reaction but I'll repeat a vaccine does not have to be a 100% cure to every individual it's administered to in order to stop a pandemic

    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    How many versions of the coronavirus have they found in the past few months? Four? Six?
    This is just my thoughts but same as the flu jab is changed year by year to cover the different strains of flu I could envisage something similar with the coronavirus, currently the widespread testing shows 94% effective, now I know very well some will say that's fake and prefer to trust random unverifiable online sources, but lets be grown ups.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    I remember quite well one of the last times I caught the flu. The family was all in town and we were supposed to go up to the mountains to go snow shoeing. I couldn't get out of bed. My daughters described me as being a "larva". It wiped me out completely. But!...I had the flu shot.
    As insightful and fascinating your own personal experiences are of catching the flu they are of course absolutely irrelevant when discussing what may or not be effective in stemming a pandemic

    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    Assuming the COVID-19 vaccine proves to be no more effective in real life than the flu shot that has done "a pretty good job of stopping flu pandemics"...how will you continue your life with any kind of freedoms?
    1918 flu pandemic estimates vary wildly but most say at least 50 million dead some as high as 100 million

    1957 flu pandemic estimates 1 to 4 million dead

    1968 flu pandemic estimates 1 to 4 million dead

    Vaccines produced for both the 1957 pandemic and the 1968 pandemic but not the 1918 pandemic. Currently we are much better at identifying new flu strains and getting a vaccine produced than 50 years ago. Given global travel is so much more commonplace now and we've had no pandemic since 1968 I'd call it a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daboo View Post
    We have rolled over and played dead on our right to assemble. Our right to worship. And oh yes, the left has already said they are coming after our guns. What's the virus have to do with the Second Amendment? Ah...never let a crisis go to waste. We didn't even put up a fuss. We just rolled over and played dead.
    I'm not a gambling man but I'd bet a pound to a pinch of the smelly stuff that if the vaccine proves successful and we all unlock next year, you guys will still be able to buy a gun.
    Last edited by MGD109; 12-08-20 at 11:27 AM.
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  56. #1141
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    As you may have heard, the County of Los Angeles Health Officer shut down all in-person dining, including outdoor eating as a method to slow the spread of the virus. In response the Southern California Restaurant Association went to court asking for an injunction to overthrow the order prohibiting outdoor dining, claiming that there was no justification for doing so. The judge (I am not sure if it was a county Superior Court judge or a Federal judge) said that was a reasonable request. He then asked that the county supply him with justification and data that showed that outdoor dining was spreading the COVID-19 virus. The county was unable to submit any reasonable justification for the order, so this morning the judge invoked a restraining order against prohibiting outdoor dining. The order goes into effect on December 16, I assume to permit the county to appeal his order.

    As I suspected many of these orders shutting down businesses seem to have no factual justification. One of the better ones is why can the public go to big box stores like Costco, Target and Walmart, but mom-and-pop stores and businesses must be closed to protect the public against contacting the virus from other customers (which you could probably count on one hand)? That just doesn't make sense to me. I don't mind following health officer and state virus protection regulations, but it sure would be nice if they could provide some factual justification or studies to back up their orders. All they ever say is that it is required by "the data and science". But when asked which data and what science, they have no answer. (In fact, California's governor tends to walk away without answering when asked questions like that.
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  58. #1142
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    The State's Health Officer stated this afternoon that everyone needs to stay at home until the spread of the virus gets under control. His reasoning is that if as many businesses as possible are closed, people will have no reason to leave home because there will be nowhere to go and that will help bring the pandemic under control, as well as reduce the number of ICU beds needed for the sick.


    The TV news a few minutes ago had a group of Bay Area restaurant owners thinking about protesting (since that is OK to do) during lunch and dinner times in their outdoor dining areas.
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  59. #1143
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  61. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve n rose View Post
    I'm so glad I live in Aus!
    You should be!

    One story I watched tonight was how the "smartest person in the world", Elon Musk, was moving from California and the dumbest govenor in the country, Gavin Newsom. Now you may disagree with Elon Musk being the smartest person in the world, but he has done fairly well for himself. The news story that triggered that was the announcement by the newly elected Los Angeles District Attorney saying he wouldn't prosecute a long list of criminal offenses. No bail. Just released to go do it again. Here's a quote I picked up on Fox News.
    The Los Angeles Police Protective League, the union that represents rank-and-file officers, criticized the new policies Monday.
    “As homicides, shooting victims and shots fired into occupied homes soar in Los Angeles, it’s disturbing that Gascon’s first act in office is to explore every avenue possible to release from jail those responsible for this bloodshed," the union's board of directors said in a statement Monday. "These victims and law-abiding residents lost a voice today while criminals and gang members gained an ally in the prosecutor’s office.”
    This is while there's a huge push to eliminate the police. So who will stay in California? Those who can't afford to leave.

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  62. #1145
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    One of the health officer regulations for California that really has me scratching my head is the one banning all outdoor camping. I really don't get that. You are outdoors, rarely get in close contact with others, tend to be isolated in a small tent, go hiking or riding for recreation, etc. Besides, who goes camping during the winter in the northern hemisphere? Maybe that is why no one is complaining about that restriction except for me. I would really like to hear the justification for that one.

    And speaking of tents and camping: There are thousands of homeless people camping out on public sidewalks in San Francisco and in other areas of the Bay Area, but the rules say they are exempt from any virus health order restrictions.

    One of the other funny health order compliance reactions is that the government says it is OK to go hiking with others (staying 6 feet apart, of course) in the woods, but the agencies that manage the hiking areas then close all of the bathrooms and water fountains and remove all of the trail maps. Which results in people getting lost, as well as certain environmental impacts that compete with bears in the woods.

    The last time we had a "lock-down" earlier in the year, there was strict enforcement against anyone visiting or walking along Pacific Ocean beaches. But this time that activity is permitted. Another one that has me scratching my head. Why was that activity prohibited a few months ago, but it is OK to do now?

    Elon Musk is moving to Texas, according to what the TV news said last night. Apparently Texas has no state income tax and he will save a huge amount of taxes every year by moving there, as California has the highest income tax rate in the country. And the state legislators have plans to raise it much higher next year as their planned "income distribution" to make the state's successful and wealthy residents pay their "fair share" of taxes. Commercial moving companies had better lay in a good supply of trucks next year. And once all of the wealthy move out of state, who will pay the bills to keep the lights on?

    And speaking of "de-funding the police", the city of Oakland CA has been doing that this year and now has had 100 murders so far in 2020, with over 600 people being wounded in shootings. That is the most murders that they have had during the past 8 years. The police are blaming the murders and shootings on both the limited number of police being able to enforce the laws and investigate crimes, as well as the stress caused by the pandemic, along with criminals being released from jail by the courts as fast as they are can be arrested.
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  64. #1146
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    A couple of California pandemic news items from today:

    There is a petition to recall Governor Gruesome that was apparently started in San Diego, which I hadn't heard about until today. They currently have 800K signatures and they need 1.2 million to get it on the state ballot. A judge just gave them an additional 4 months to get the extra 400K signatures because of the pandemic situation. Some restaurant owners are planning to place copies of the petition next to their takeout ordering window.

    And this is funny: Last week when the Governor issued the new virus restriction rules they included a requirement to close all public playgrounds. Apparently, that order resulted in a large number of mothers blowing their stacks and thinking of marching on the capital with a noose to string up a certain public official. Today a reporter for the local CBS radio station discovered that the closing playgrounds regulation had been changed to say that it would be OK to keep playgrounds open, with appropriate social distancing and mask wearing, of course. There wasn't a peep about this change issued by the Governor. It just goes to show you what a mob of irate mothers of young children can accomplish. You don't want to piss them off.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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  66. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard230 View Post
    A couple of California pandemic news items from today:

    There is a petition to recall Governor Gruesome that was apparently started in San Diego, which I hadn't heard about until today. They currently have 800K signatures and they need 1.2 million to get it on the state ballot. A judge just gave them an additional 4 months to get the extra 400K signatures because of the pandemic situation. Some restaurant owners are planning to place copies of the petition next to their takeout ordering window.

    And this is funny: Last week when the Governor issued the new virus restriction rules they included a requirement to close all public playgrounds. Apparently, that order resulted in a large number of mothers blowing their stacks and thinking of marching on the capital with a noose to string up a certain public official. Today a reporter for the local CBS radio station discovered that the closing playgrounds regulation had been changed to say that it would be OK to keep playgrounds open, with appropriate social distancing and mask wearing, of course. There wasn't a peep about this change issued by the Governor. It just goes to show you what a mob of irate mothers of young children can accomplish. You don't want to piss them off.

    Indeed they do not want to piss off an angry mob of mothers. "Don't make me take this shoe off, MISTER!!"
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    By last night the story about the state removing the requirement that all child playgrounds be closed had hit the TV news stations big time. (They were licking their chops over that story, complete with "film at 11" and interviews with crying mothers. ) The story is that when pressed, the state admitted that they had no science or data to support closing playgrounds and that is why they changed their minds and are allowing playgrounds to be opened back up.

    Needless to say, it didn't take long (more news at 11) for restaurant owners and other small mom-and-pop business owners to say, what about us? Where is your data and science that shows that we need to be shut down to protect the public, while big box, special-interest groups and donors to your campaigns get a pass and are allowed to stay open for indoor activities, when all we want is to be allowed to serve the public outdoors? It will be interesting to see what happens next. No doubt the media will do its best to stir the pot and to keep things boiling, one way or the other.

    While thinking about this subject it occurred to me that the county health officers have been performing "contact tracing" of infected people during the summer and fall months and they should have had some indication and data by now of which activities result in the spread of the COVID-19 virus and which don't. So why are not those results being tabulated into research data to justify pandemic safety rules? That has got me scratching my head, too. Right now the rules seem to be driven more by the medical profession's opinions and not actual data - or at least not anything that they want to present to the public.
    Richard - Current bikes: 2016 BMW R1200RS, 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2020 KTM 390 Duke, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 (FZS1000N) and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior. 

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    I've been married for 46 years. There's no way I'd want to piss off a whole bunch of women like her.

    There's no real logic in the restrictions. Not if you try to match what they say with what happens. Dr. Fauci has flip-flopped on what to do over the last year. He's more of a politician and bureaucrat than doctor. And he and the politicians are making the decisions, not medical professionals. I believe he's also been offered a chance to stay on with the Biden administration, if Biden is sworn in. So expect more.

    I go to a drug and alcohol rehab house and teach the Bible to a group of about 12-14 men each Thursday morning. Last Thursday, I found out that there was a cold or something hitting quite a few of the men. No one has yet been sick there in the year I've been going there, so this was a first. Then I find out Tuesday morning that two of the men tested positive for COVID. Uh-oh. So I went to my doctor and got tested. No results yet from the test...but I don't feel sick at all. My point is that I spent at least an hour with these guys in close proximity around a large table...and didn't get sick. No masks. If it was as bad as the MSM and politicians tell us it is, I should be lying in a bed, dying.

    Chris
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